tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7705675907060089073.post4705608341065293426..comments2024-03-23T05:55:29.759-04:00Comments on Bonsai from the Right: Open Thread: What is on your mindChrishttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12905362327313044045noreply@blogger.comBlogger49125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7705675907060089073.post-48613863717265695002010-01-19T13:44:31.196-05:002010-01-19T13:44:31.196-05:00Let's just take a look at who started what:
J...Let's just take a look at who started what:<br /><br />John "All of this ... without the union. ... higher wages, fewer hours, less skill required, affordable product ... without paying for some useless org. to keep the lowlife scum-suckers and cheats in a job that would be better off going to someone who is interested in working for a living?!?!"<br /><br />Joey "Then we look into other aspects ... Ford was a known anti-semite and Hitler supporter, having been given the Grand Cross of the Supreme Order of the German Eagle in 1938 ... lets look at your statment that they forced their way in. nothing could be further from the truth. The UAW was not the one using force... (this is a blatant lie by Joey) <br /><br />... So in the end you find his fascination with the Republican party interesting ... i say its par for the rightwing course. He cared little for his workers, humanity and ... Jews, lets not forget about that."<br /><br />Right off the bat we see Joey instigating and insinuating that Republicans don't care for humanity or Jews. You start right off classy as all hell Joey!<br /><br />John: "Thanks for the information on Ford's anti-semitism ... It is definitely important to remember that nobody is or was perfect and indeed had their flaws ... Robert Byrd, being a member of the KKK ... And that guy never did anything near what Henry Ford did for humanity. THAT is par for the course for Hypocrats. Carter, Jackson, Sharpton, McKinney ... the list goes on and on, and I'm just listing current anti-semites in the Hypocrat party!"<br /><br />"... it's Ford's company, Ford can do as he pleases. If people didn't like the arrangement, they can move on down the road. They could even start up their own company and pay their workers whatever they want, and treat them any way they want! LOL ... Joey, when does someone's business and how they run it become anybody's business but the owners?"<br /><br />"Aw, the poor union organizers... if the union wasn't forcing their way in, are you telling me that Ford's guys just went over to some union-organizer's houses and attacked them?!?! LOL ... sure, whatever Joey. The fact is, if there was 70% turnover, then people were finding out how bad the conditions were and were free to leave to seek other employment, correct? And if you constantly are training 70% of your workforce, even for their non-skilled jobs, then in short order you will be changing your methods in order to retain those workers. You don't need the friggin' union to do that.<br /><br />The perfect union, they never used force?!?!"<br /><br />So as we can see, I wasn't rising to your bait Joey, and I presented several points that you refuse to address. What is the union good for? Why didn't people just go work somewhere else? When does a person's business become the business of the workers to where they can dictate how the business is run?!?!<br /><br />But no, it's too tough for Joey to answer, so he keeps on with attacking Henry Ford, ignoring the fact that I said it is important to realize that nobody is perfect. That's when you attack me Joey, including these gems<br /> <br />Joey: "John ... now that you've tried deflection and straw mans can we get BACK TO FORD (emphasis mine). When you went to the home did you find a copy of his book on the shelf, "the International Jew, THE WORLD'S FOREMOST PROBLEM" or just the one about the republican party? (Another classy dig by the inimitable Joey)<br /><br />Joey Re: Ford "YOU CAN LOVE THE MAN (again, emphasis mine), he's your type of guy, but not mine.<br /><br />This is allllll a product of JOEY stirring the pot. You have no answers to my questions or points, so you have to stir things up and then cry when nobody defends the guy who starts trouble. You are the perfect example of a union thug. Go back to your house of anger and leave the normals in peace. I can have a civil conversation with anyone, but if you start this bullshit up with me I will fight back.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7705675907060089073.post-18190339974805469872010-01-19T13:21:32.340-05:002010-01-19T13:21:32.340-05:00Well Joey, I was going to apologize for calling yo...Well Joey, I was going to apologize for calling you racist, but then I come across this post by you: "Hey, be happy, do a jig, kill a muslim, discriminate against a black man, whatever it is you guys do for fun when you think things are all going your way." That's when I realized that the only thing I need to apologize for is having a battle of wits with an unarmed man.<br /><br />You are an ugly little man Joey. If you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen. Joey, quit bitching. You never castigated any LIEberal for anything they said on this blog. Get down off your cross Joey. And you ALWAYS start your bullshit hate-rants, every time. Hell, the first time I ever saw you post you introduced your strawman "homo-erotic" bullshit. From the very beginning Joey, you have been nothing but a total dirt-bag with nothing useful to say. Only your little snide remarks and then you run crying.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7705675907060089073.post-7389767845849120482010-01-19T12:42:44.979-05:002010-01-19T12:42:44.979-05:00i wasn't called out by a co-worker. Whomever t...i wasn't called out by a co-worker. Whomever that was isn't a co-worker. He could be anyone? there is simply no truth to any rumor, post, suggestion etc. that i am a bigot. there's not one person who knows me who would think that. There is nothing i have done or said that would led people to believe that about me. <br /><br />As for calling the republicans i know at work bigots, i am speaking about people i work very closely with and have said such bigotted things that there is no other choice but to be honest about them. <br /><br />chris, i don't want you to remove his post, i want you to do what i do with Bruce, not support him when he is wrong. You, Al and others will just let his obvious double standards go when he posts them. <br /><br />And as far as taking it, you have to admit three or four short posts in a row of nothing but accussations of racism, being the biggest racist, etc, is overboard. nothing but attacks there.<br /><br />18 January, 2010 12:32 <br />18 January, 2010 12:37 <br />18 January, 2010 12:38 <br /><br />Read those posts. are they anything other than attacks. they amount to nothing more than a chance to call me names and accuse me of things he has no evidence for. <br /><br />As for calling those a racist i think are guilty of honest racism, you bet. I have done it in the past. i told you i wouldn't vote for Byrd due to his past if he were in my state. I'm also against race-baiting and willing to call out those that do it on both sides, like Rush, Rev Al., Jesse and others.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7705675907060089073.post-6020762044625933422010-01-19T09:01:46.667-05:002010-01-19T09:01:46.667-05:00I agree with Joe that the left have been using rac...I agree with Joe that the left have been using racism as their tactic for smearing the Republicans for a long time. Joe will you promise to call out racism on your own side? John will you promise to call out racism on your side when it happens? <br />By the way Joe you were the one that called the Republicans at your Ford plant racist. You have done it as many time to others as you have had it done to you. You were even called out by one of your own coworkers and you got mad and refutted him. If you can't stand being called a racist then stop calling those you appose racist.Chrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12905362327313044045noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7705675907060089073.post-9122039897547294372010-01-19T08:55:13.035-05:002010-01-19T08:55:13.035-05:00JoeC You all have done name calling and cursing. I...JoeC You all have done name calling and cursing. I run this blog the way I wish our government would run our country. I do wish you all would not call names and attack one another but you are all adults here and no one is getting hurt. I have noticed the the liberals can dish it out but they sure can't take it. But isn't that always how it works? So Joe once again you blame religion and the Christian Church because I don't fight your fight for you. Joe I have been called every name in the book on this blog and I don't even erase it. I'm not a dictator and I'm afraid you only see one side of things Joe as you are very sensitive when you are called names. Go ahead and blame God or the Christian Church some more because someone is picking on you. Joe take a deep breath my friend and relax. I know you are mad because the Democrats aren't turning out the way you thought it would. You have to remember that we conservatiuves have been listening to you on the left bitching and attacking for a decade now. You only have heard it for less then 2 years. So Joe why would you blast the "christian church" because you have a problem with John? Did you know there are people that have a bad day at work and when they get home they take it out on their wife,kids or dog. I see why you liberals think the government should take care of you. Because you can't do it yourself. Why don't you two just ignore each other for a while? Try governing yourselves for a change.Chrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12905362327313044045noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7705675907060089073.post-26089663253554553062010-01-19T08:54:45.814-05:002010-01-19T08:54:45.814-05:00John, just so you know and stop the vile hatefille...John, just so you know and stop the vile hatefilled attacks and accusations, i supported and voted for Obama. I'm not a racist and have never been one. <br /><br />Please stop with that bullshit. Its not true and its nothing less than a smear job. You constantly post about personal attacks and how people shouldn't put word into your mouth and yet, you do both at an extremely high rate.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7705675907060089073.post-13910697649318198482010-01-19T08:03:59.324-05:002010-01-19T08:03:59.324-05:00John, if your confused its because your not bright...John, if your confused its because your not bright. you talked about Henry ford and all the wonderful things he did and how the union "forced" its way in. I countered with the not so wonderful things he did, like support Hitler and Japan in 37 and 38. Still confused.<br /> <br />He bought war bounds to help support the japanese war effort.<br /><br />He was given a medal by Germany with a personal note from Hitler. <br /><br />His security force killed people to prevent union organization, attacking women and clergy. <br /><br />that is the Henry Ford you admire. <br /><br />Now onto the fact that i work for a publically traded company, no longer owned by Herny Ford sr. and I never worked for him. It may have been founded by a bigot and an anti-semite, but it is no longer owned by him. <br /><br />As for my "alleged" racism, i have none and you have no reason to suggest i do. Its nothing more than "personal attacks" to suggest i do, but thats what your good at. always calling names and acting like a little blogger bully. <br /><br />John, i'm not even mad and yet in your attack laden posts you constantly accuse me of it, despite the fact that you sound by far much more upset. You don't need to project on me your issues, John. <br /><br />Chris, what suprise me most is that you, the christian of the group go along with this BS. You see that he makes accusations he can't back up, that he constantly calls name and attacks posters and yet nary a word from you. Atleast i have the stones to disagree with Bruce and the lefty anons that blog here. You let poor little john use this blog as a bully pulpit for his hatred and anger without even suggesting he is wrong when clearly he is. he says, "I am the racist person" based on nothing, or better yet, the name of his blog, which he changed to include me when i suggested it was wrong. You sit back and hide behind the "we're all sinners" when he makes blantantly false accusations. Yet if a lefty does the same your on him as the day is long. <br />Makes me remember why i dislike religions and distrust the christian church.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7705675907060089073.post-58762691450245239662010-01-18T14:45:17.218-05:002010-01-18T14:45:17.218-05:00I'm still confused about what anti-semitism an...I'm still confused about what anti-semitism and the rape of Nanking has to do with the usefulness of the union. Joey I'm trying to piece together how that is not a strawman argument, but I'm going to need your brilliant linear logical thinking to make the connection for me. Thanks in advance Joey.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7705675907060089073.post-17475205743852849382010-01-18T13:11:22.883-05:002010-01-18T13:11:22.883-05:00Relax Joe. Your acxting like the Democrats are in ...Relax Joe. Your acxting like the Democrats are in major trouble politically. It's not like the Republicans are taking 60th Senate seat in a Democrat state that would ruin their chances to pass a retarded health care bill. Joe you should be mad at the Democrats for screwing everything up worse then before.Chrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12905362327313044045noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7705675907060089073.post-5804179684316758962010-01-18T12:38:46.330-05:002010-01-18T12:38:46.330-05:00Hey Joey, are you part of that Krew that runs out ...Hey Joey, are you part of that Krew that runs out and gets donuts every morning? You know, the Krispy Kreme Krew? I bet you throw on a white smock so that you keep the Krispy Kreme Krap off of your work uniforms. ROFLMAO<br /><br />Racist.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7705675907060089073.post-25285375636029149502010-01-18T12:37:02.508-05:002010-01-18T12:37:02.508-05:00Hey Joey, how does it feel to drive a FORD, the pr...Hey Joey, how does it feel to drive a FORD, the product of an anti-semite?!?! I bet you got yourself a nice WHITE Ford F-150 truc(K) with the (K)ruiser (K)ab. BWAAAHAHAHAHA<br /><br />I bet you never refused a raise on the grounds that a racist company was giving it to you. You certainly had no plans to walk from your job once you found out how Henry Ford hated the Jews. I bet you realized that you finally found your niche in life. Think I would win that bet racist?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7705675907060089073.post-89874456497574051232010-01-18T12:32:56.353-05:002010-01-18T12:32:56.353-05:00And don't worry about anonymous ragin' rac...And don't worry about anonymous ragin' racist-Joey. Anonymous LIEberals and conservatives write in here. You don't see anyone else getting their panties in a bunch. Those anger-management courses are NOT paying off for you Joey. Maybe you should try switching to de-caf.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7705675907060089073.post-58766221685709636682010-01-18T12:29:36.211-05:002010-01-18T12:29:36.211-05:00JoeC See Joe I Cant Tell What kind of Car you DR...JoeC See Joe I Cant Tell What kind of Car you DRIVE, Yet YOU Say You Can Tell What I Beleive in! NEITHER Statement is CORRECT but I am MORE Right than YOU!ALnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7705675907060089073.post-23625327578283342512010-01-18T12:27:22.002-05:002010-01-18T12:27:22.002-05:00BWAAAAHAHAHAHA ... first of all JOEY, I don't ...BWAAAAHAHAHAHA ... first of all JOEY, I don't think you know what a strawman argument is. Because, as I said before, my FIRST COMMENT was about FORD and the USELESS UNIONS. Next thing I know, you are talking about anti-semitism and the rape of Nanking! So Joey, everyone can see where this whole conversation started and where you took it.<br /><br />Ooooooh ... burn Joey, sorry I didn't bother to go back and read your hate-filled angry comment to note that it was DEARBORN and not DETROIT police. Big Flippin' whoop. So sorry I got that wrong Joey, it was still the POLICE trying to QUELL that rage-filled VIOLENT union MOB. So go F yourself if the biggest error you can find in my posts is I got the CITY wrong! ROFLMAO ... look at you all grasping at straws and shit!! LOL<br /><br />Gosh Joey, where did I ever deflect and obfuscate?!?! AGAIN, Joey, YOU cannot answer what good the Union has ever done! You go on about anti-semitism; what exactly that has to do with my original comment ONLY YOU KNOW DIPSHIT. See, now I spend all my time answering (NOT DEFLECTING LOSER) your ridiculous statements and strawmen, just like you planned. For instance, let's just take a little proof of you displaying your strawman argument tactics right from your last comment. The part where you say "I accuse the party you vote for of having bigots in it." Well now Joey, THAT had nothing to do with my original comment. Quite a bit off topic there Joey. Quite a STRAWMAN, and DEFLECTION and OBFUSCATION JOEY.<br /><br />YES JOEY, bigots and racists existed in the past, in BOTH parties. But now, in the present, it only exists in the HYPOCRAT party. That's a fact, and you can cram that along with a big banana, up your rectum.<br /><br />YOU CONSTANTLY DISAGREE!?!?! ROFLMAO ... oh stop it Joey. What have you losers ever disagreed on.<br /><br />Show me Joey, show me where I'm a hypocrite. Am I the one defending a racist Senate Majority Leader who was hopeful that the Hypocrats could hold their nose and vote for a light-skinned negro? Was there any Republicans or Conservatives who said that Obummer could turn his negro dialect on and off at will?!? Hypocrats. Ahhhh ... no, that was Hypocrat Joey. The most racist white man of them all.<br /><br />So Joey, what about the negros who only voted for Obummer because of his negroness and his negro dialect. Think those are racists or what?<br /><br />BWAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHA ... look at your rage-filled rabid posts Joey. The only time I was wrong was I called the police Detroit instead of Detroit. Whoa, that's quite a Perry Mason moment for you Joey. I know that destroys all the other facts that I presented, LOLAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7705675907060089073.post-19729838637427279142010-01-18T11:22:40.102-05:002010-01-18T11:22:40.102-05:00john, see the difference between you and i? You ac...john, see the difference between you and i? You accuse me of racism though i have done nothing of the sort and you have no evidence of any sort. I accuse the party you vote for of having bigots in it. You constantly put words in my mouth and then get your panties in a twist when you think someone has done that to you. <br /><br />your a hack who constantly relies on obfuscation and deflection to hide the reality of your immense hypocrisy. Of course your rightie buddies here go along with it, because its banana style for the group, all of you in a big yellow bunch. Not a single one of the righties will call you out on it, even though i will constantly disagree with bruce and the rest of the left. Not you though.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7705675907060089073.post-80202308225754202102010-01-18T10:41:40.412-05:002010-01-18T10:41:40.412-05:00Anon, atleast have the balls to use your name. I d...Anon, atleast have the balls to use your name. I don't know its the left here at work. I know of plenty of righties who express their dislike of blacks daily. I bet you do to, but can't admit it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7705675907060089073.post-81444552472182807742010-01-18T10:39:41.842-05:002010-01-18T10:39:41.842-05:00Al, Of course i drive a ford. Thats just nasty bro...Al, Of course i drive a ford. Thats just nasty brother. Accusing me of not buying the company i work for. <br /><br />John, first off lets get to how little you actually read my posts. My post about the Ford Hunger March said nothing about Detroit police. It did include that Deaborn Police and Ford Servicemen shot on the crowd and killed people, but nothing about Detroit. and if you read it, then you'd know i said that. But you continue to show the people here your ignorance. Lucky for you they are just like you and think its okay. <br /><br />Bwahahahahaha you can't even read my posts and you accuse me of straw men. <br /><br />As for your constant attacks, something you hypocritically blame on the left and me, atleast i can take it, unlike diapers and the other posters who run and cry when its not a rightwing circle jerk. You with your constant liebrals and hypocrats attacks are one to talk about how ever i choose to address people. Hell you can't even call me by my name.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7705675907060089073.post-51532966293969543422010-01-18T08:08:21.774-05:002010-01-18T08:08:21.774-05:00Wow great posts my friends.Wow great posts my friends.Chrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12905362327313044045noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7705675907060089073.post-85720541692264069002010-01-17T22:32:04.530-05:002010-01-17T22:32:04.530-05:00You don't need a grade book to realize that ou...You don't need a grade book to realize that our public education system is failing to properly prepare our future leaders. With the national dropout rate at almost 30 percent (nearly 50 percent for African American and Hispanic students), the writing is on the chalkboard.<br /> <br />Still, there seems little urgency in Congress to address the sorry state of our country's education system.<br /><br /><br />Given our fiscal woes, it's easy to understand why lawmakers might be more concerned with jumpstarting the economy than with fixing the broken education system. But if policymakers continue to ignore the simple fixes that could improve education, we may be on a perilous path to even greater economic stagnation in the decades to come.<br /> <br />In a compelling report, three of my colleagues at The Heritage Foundation -- Dan Lips, Jennifer Marshall and James Carafano -- argue that our country is quickly losing its global competitiveness because of our failure to produce enough scientists, engineers and mathematicians.<br /> <br />According to a 2006 Program for International Student Assessment exam, 15-year-old American students placed a dismal 23rd out of 29 participating countries in mathematics. And in science, students in 16 countries outscored American students.<br /> <br />This matters, of course, because our country desperately relies on mathematicians and engineers to remain at the cusp of technological advances. For example, Silicon Valley is synonymous with the iPod and iPhone, thanks to the innovative drive of countless scientists and engineers.<br /> <br />Of course, we benefit from the good work of scientists, doctors and mathematicians in other ways, too. The United States leads the world in the fight to find a cure for cancer and AIDS. And thanks to our country's engineers, we are building safe and reliable roads, planes and automobiles. In short, we all benefit when our education system succeeds.<br /> <br />As my colleagues write (their report is titled, "Improving U.S. Competitiveness"): "For years, the U.S.-dominated science and technology fields filed record numbers of patents, which in turn empowered its military and fueled its economy. But times are changing. China has gained ground in electrical engineering and computing."<br /> <br />Thus our education system's shortcomings effectively threaten our national security.<br /> <br />Unfortunately, the answer for many is to simply increase federal spending on education. That's been done again and again, including last year when the so-called "stimulus" package doubled the Department of Education's budget.<br /><br />Lawmakers need to consider other alternatives to truly bring about the necessary improvements. Money isn't the problem -- we're shelling out some $12,000 per student every year in many cities.<br /> <br />The real problem is the opposition to reform and competition from so many entrenched special interests in the education sector. Teacher labor unions furiously oppose meaningful reforms that could increase competition. These include expanding school-choice options for parents.<br /><br />Increasing vouchers, for instance, would allow parents to decide where to send their children to school instead of forcing them to send their children to their neighborhood's failing schools.<br /> <br />The failure to prepare tomorrow's leaders in math and science is a threat to our country's global standing. For far too long, policy makers have turned a blind eye to our crumbling public education system. This is no longer exclusively an education issue -- this is now also a national security issue.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7705675907060089073.post-37014564433319652962010-01-17T22:02:13.341-05:002010-01-17T22:02:13.341-05:00Another element restraining Liberals from dispensi...Another element restraining Liberals from dispensing real justice is that they don't want to kill "their own." Who of us can doubt that the inhabitants of death row are default constituents of the political Left? Are Conservatives filling the bunks of America's "death rows"? Empirical evidence says "no." If they were, is there anyone who thinks there would be Liberal protest over it? Likely not, and herein is the greater hypocrisy. <br /><br />Conservatives are willing to die for their causes. Liberals are willing to kill for theirs. However, Liberals aren't willing to commit suicide. As long as there are helpless, brainless, soulless, pathetic individuals out there, Liberals will do all they can to stay the hand of justice from them so they can be paraded in front of the media as another "crisis" at which to throw money. <br /><br />However, one segment of the population that it is unprofitable to throw money at is the elderly. The high cost of health care has made it very uncomfortable for the Liberal commisars who deal with elderly patients and their nursing home bills. Thankfully for Liberals, euthanasia is starting to pick up support. The growing percentage of senior citizens in this country guarantees that spending to keep them alive will far exceed the tolerance of taxpayers. To a Liberal, more government is a good thing, but even they realize that it can grow too fast to escape the notice of America's wage-earners and taxpayers. <br /><br />Euthanasia promises to cure this dilemma, allowing doctors and the families of elderly patients to end terminal patients' lives forcibly. This is billed as "compassionate" and "progressive." It is not "coming"; it is already here. Maybe not yet in your town or state, but it's not far away. <br /><br />Conservative Contradiction? <br /><br />Typically, the political Left accuses Conservatives of being hypocrites when it comes to capital punishment. Liberals cite the alleged hypocricy of Conservatives in protesting abortion while advocating the death penalty. This supposed conflict is borne of the misunderstanding of what each of these acts really is. Capital punishment is intended to be punishment. In that light, it is the ultimate punishment for the ultimate of crimes. Justice is served through capital punishment because society is then rid of individuals who completely lack respect for the most fundamental of human rights. We should not care how the murderer's family, nor even the victim's family, feels about it. Government must act to protect the whole of society, not narrow interests. <br /><br />Abortion is not what Liberals think it is either. Abortion is not like removing a mole. It is not a "right." And it most certainly is not "health care." It is, plain and simple, murder, a crime worthy of capital punishment. Were this a just society that truly valued life, capital punishment would apply to doctors administering abortions, as well as patients seeking one. (Some of you are glad I am not a legislator.) Trying to seek a comfy middle ground on the issue is a dance with the Devil, and trying to draw distinctions between embryos and fully formed adults is simply an argument of scale that doesn't hold up, logically or Biblically. <br /><br />The "Culture of Death" and the Final Solution <br /><br />What more examples do we need of the inherent evil of the political Left than the poetically Satanic bookends of abortion and euthanasia? Herod and Pharaoh went after babies to solve their problems; Hitler and Stalin concentrated on the core population for theirs. The movie Soylent Green postulated what could happen to old people in an overcrowded future society. Perhaps today's Liberals have hit upon the solution to end all "solutions"--start at both ends to squeeze the middle into submission. Readers of this column can scoff at my conspiratorial air, but it's easy to be a skeptic when you're not the one being killed.Violets Are Bluenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7705675907060089073.post-91231239208598052762010-01-17T21:20:43.106-05:002010-01-17T21:20:43.106-05:00Other researchers have found further examples of d...Other researchers have found further examples of divergence. The Berkeley linguist George Lakoff argues that liberals and conservatives base their political views on fundamentally different metaphors of how to run a society. For both, a government should be like a family, but for liberals, the ideal family is one that is run by a nurturing parent who forgives mistakes and wants all of her children to flourish and have new experiences. For conservatives, the ideal family is run by a stern parent, who emphasizes accountability and self-reliance, not self-expression. Think June Clever vs. Ward Clever. When people stray, liberals offer second chances and cite external influences; conservatives favor discipline and say three strikes and you're out. Lakoff argues that these different ideals inform many political debates. To liberals, conservatives appear inconsistent when they oppose abortion and favor the death penalty. In reality, both views derive from the same conservative principle: if a person does something imprudent (getting pregnant or committing a capital crime), that person should deal with the consequences. The abortion debate does not hinge on a scientific or theological debate about the beginning of life; it reflects different conceptions of responsibility.<br /><br />Findings like this have important implications for understanding politics. Liberals and conservatives never seem to convince each other. They incessantly present arguments for their views on television and talk radio, but it's rare to see anyone getting persuaded to join the opposing side. The arguments used by spinners and editorialists serve more to rally the base than to convince the opposition. Liberals and conservatives are equally intelligent and they have access to the same facts, but they arrive at opposing views because they value different things. To this extent, cross-party political debate is a bit of a charade. There can be no consensus if the sides value different things. At best, the sides can look for some overlapping values and find rare islands of agreement or they can compromise and agree to tolerate policies that favor the opposition, provided the concessions aren't too great.<br /><br />The findings also have important philosophical implications. Philosophers have traditionally assumed that there is a single morality shared by all people. Some philosophers think that morality has a rational foundation that can be discovered by intelligent reflection, while others presume it is hard wired into human nature. The fact that liberals and conservatives fail to agree, despite their intelligence, moral concern, and access to information, suggests that the traditional philosophical picture is mistaken. There are multiple moralities. Some moral values may have biological roots, but experience determines which values get emphasized, and, as in the case of liberals, some biologically rooted dispositions (such as preferential treatment of the ingroup) never become central aspects of morality. Most likely, we catch values from those around us, through processes of social conformity, emotional conditioning, imitative learning, and mere exposure. Moral values correlate with demographic and geographic variables. If morality reflected something more universal or rational, there wouldn't be red states and blue states. Once acquired, moral values are resilient to change through argument (when was the last time Rush Limbaugh convinced a liberal?). As a result, liberals and conservatives live in somewhat different moral worlds, and none of the arguments used in political discourse will bring us to total consensus. Failure to appreciate this simple fact leads to confusion and name-calling on both sides.J.P.Phd.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7705675907060089073.post-78713625650322513712010-01-17T21:19:45.990-05:002010-01-17T21:19:45.990-05:00Liberals tend to think that conservatives are eith...Liberals tend to think that conservatives are either stupid or evil. They see George W. Bush as a buffoon and Dick Cheney as a nefarious architect of doom. These two options strike liberals as the on1y possible explanations for why someone would adopt a conservative agenda. Conservatives must be either be confused about what morality demands of us in the political sphere, or they must recognize the demands of morality and simply ignore those demands, in pursuit of power or lucre. Conservatives have no more a flattering conception of liberals. For their vantage point, liberals either look hopelessly naïve (read "stupid") or dangerously corrupted (read "evil"). Liberals are either tree-hugging fools or calculating agents of moral degeneracy. Why is this?<br /><br />One answer is that liberals and conservatives each make the same false assumption about the other side: they assume that their opponents share the same basic moral values. Suppose you and I share the same basic values, but you advocate some policy that I oppose. That means one of us is either making a mistake about what our shared values entail or willfully pursuing something we know to be immoral. One of us is stupid or evil. But there is another possibility: perhaps we have some different basic values. Perhaps we are both pursuing exactly what our values demand of us, but, since those values differ, we are pursuing different political agendas.<br /> The idea that liberals and conservatives have some different basic values gains support from recent psychological research. For example, in a recent issue of Science, psychologist Jonathan Haidt reports that conservatives are deeply concerned about factors that fall outside of liberal morality. For liberals, morality is pretty much about harm and justice. To decide whether a policy is wrong, they want to know whether any one will be hurt by it and whether it will be fair to all those affected. Conservative care about harm and justice too, but they also care about three things that liberals tend to ignore: purity, respect for authority, and loyalty to the ingroup. Consider gay sex. A liberal will say, as long as no one is harmed, we should not prohibit gay sex; indeed such a prohibition would be unfair. A conservative might say that gay sex can be prohibited on the grounds that it is impure ("an unnatural act"). Or consider flag burning. A liberal will again say: no one is harmed, and everyone has the right to self-expression. Conservatives will say that flag burning is an act of desecration that disrespects the authority of this great nation. Or take preemptive war and regime change. Liberals will caution that it is bad to harm others and unjust to threaten the autonomy of other nations. Conservatives will focus on the threat that others pose to us here at home, and they will plaster their cars with stickers that say "support our troops," showing deep concern for the ingroup. The political agendas of liberals and conservative differ, because conservatives have some core values that are not part of liberal morality. Political disputes are not the result of ignorance or iniquity. Both sides are advocating policies that follow logically from their divergent moral values.J.P. Phd.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7705675907060089073.post-42799790570322365932010-01-17T20:22:12.029-05:002010-01-17T20:22:12.029-05:00She has to win.If we don't get free health car...She has to win.If we don't get free health care I'll be pissed off and looking for revenge. I'm not the only one. You neo-cons go to hell.Paulnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7705675907060089073.post-32965917341469676792010-01-17T17:57:52.442-05:002010-01-17T17:57:52.442-05:00JoeC I work at the plant with you and you and I bo...JoeC I work at the plant with you and you and I both know it's not the Republicans that are the racists. I lost all respect for you. And not driving a Ford is low.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7705675907060089073.post-53790302814973373842010-01-17T17:34:39.515-05:002010-01-17T17:34:39.515-05:00It's interesting too Joey the point you brough...It's interesting too Joey the point you brought up long ago before you were foaming at the mouth. The point about Ford's $5/day policy being only for married men. It's interesting that that policy allows women to stay home and not have to work, probably quite a rare thing at that time. It's also interesting that this encouraged marriage. Quite the opposite of your chosen policies, in which a single mother can make more on welfare than if she married her baby daddy. Out of the two policies, it's clear that your policy has led to the destruction of the black family in particular, and family unit in general. And again, as far as I'm aware Ford was not a "slave-owner", forcing people to work for him. They were free to apply and work for him, and leave if they found the work too difficult or if they thought they could run a business better.<br /><br />Once again, this is just typical of you LIEberals being jealous of a successful person. You let someone become successful and then you want to worm your way in with your destructive unions. Interesting how the prices of cars went DOWN before the unions, and then UP UP UP ever since! Brilliant Joey, thanks for making cars cost everyone thousands more than they should. Keep up the good work racist.<br /><br />Yeah yeah, we know, nobody can run a business as successfully and efficiently as the government or the unions. Tell it to your kids Joey, but spare us your nonsense.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com