Monday, February 8, 2010

Is Waterboarding Torture? Is Withholding Medical Treatment For 50 Minutes To A Third Degree Burn 'Victim' Torture?

Marc Thiessen tells Christine Amanpour from CNN what the truth is about waterboarding. He made her and all the bleeding heart libs look as dumb as ever. I'd like to ask the bleeding heart liberals if withholding surgery and medical treatment for 50 min. is torture? And if it is then why aren't they doing anything about it like they did to Bush over waterboarding 3 terrorists? Everyone needs to watch this video.


  1. Chris, Besides the video,buy the book;

    'Courting Disaster'
    How the CIA Kept America Safe and how Barack Obama is Inviting the Next Attack
    By Mark Thiessen

  2. What part is crap Bruce? Be specific if you could. I know you is hard to do but please try. The best thing I've heard from the left about Sarah Palin is,"she's dumb". But your retort to Marc Thiessen interview is,"This guy is full of crap." Now I see why Rahm Emmanuel thinks you guys are "F@#king ret@rdes". HAHAHAHAHA. We all do. HAHAHAHHA.

  3. Thank you Christopher for the book idea.

  4. Bruce As Usual a VERY Inciteful Answer Full Of the LEFT Wisdom! Where Were You Protesting When OUR Own Military Who ARE Protected by the Geneva Convention When They Were Captured by a "Man Made Disaster" Gang and LATER Turned up DEAD in SHALLOW Graves? Yet You Defend These Terrorist Rights and Well Being! Wonder if OUR Military Were Read Their Miranda WARNINS Bruce! Shame on You Bruce BUT You and YOUR Gang Have NO SHAME!

  5. I think the best question, Chris, is where Philippe Sands asks Mark Thiessen to undergo waterboarding, since it isn't torture. Thiessen replies that he's not a terrorist and it's merely unpleasant. If it isn't torture why did the United States of America try Japanese who performed waterboarding on American prisoners stand trial for war crimes?

    I submit the same challenge to you, Chris, and anyone that reads this blog, if you don't think waterboarding is torture, submit yourself to it. I had this argument with another conservative, Chetly Zarko, and I even found a group of people to perform the waterboarding.

    So, if you want to stick to this argument, Chris, that waterboardins isn't torture, I will set the time and place for you and any other reader that wants to take me up on the challenge, to waterboard you and then answer the question whether waterboarding is torture.

    Watch this video and then tell me you still believe waterboarding isn't torture.

  6. Bruce,

    Aside from the 'is it or isn't it' debate what would you propose we do to get the important intel we need to prevent attack(s)when one of these "Overseas Operatives" (terrorists) is captured?

    Before you answer, remember that these people are ideologically operating on a religious basis (Islam) so our laws have no bearing on their mindset.

  7. Chris, I think we should use standard interrogation techniques that actually work, as we did with the so-called "underwear bomber."

    Standard interrogation techniques do work and get much more reliable information from the alleged prisoner. Apparently all kinds of actionable intelligence was gleaned from the underwear bomber just by his knowing that he would be treated fairly in U.S. custody and by bringing his parents to the U.S. to urge him to cooperate.

    That sounds like a win-win to me, Chris. We get good intelligence and the U.S. doesn't commit a war crime in its effort to get good intelligence. Their religious beliefs have nothing to do with anything. You can make statements to the contrary all you want, but their religious beliefs are not a part of the equation.

    I say use what has always worked, and we don't need the CIA to be involved in the interrogation business using torture.

    Beyond the argument of whether waterboarding is torture, is the FACT that it doesn't work.

  8. "Apparently all kinds of actionable intelligence was gleaned from the underwear bomber"

    Just what is apparent? I am well aware of current events and have not heard this. I have heard claims of it but that cannot nor ever will be considered 'apparent'.

    Please expound on this claim.

  9. So Bruce if you think that waterboarding is torture why would you want to torture anyone? Is it torture when we do it to our soldiers? I'm sure waterboarding is very uncomforable much like being tazered. I doubt very much that you could find a qualified waterboarder to do the job on me. So we both know that it is a BS statement. If you can find the people qulified to do the job and take the risk I'm your huckleberry. And I do not have any health conditions that would stop the waterboarding other then rodes in my neck and lumbar. But that shouldn't be a problem. And I will remind you that this form of interagation is successful and will leave me shaken. And when I come out of the waterboarding interigation technique that saved hundreds of American lives and prove to you that it is nothing more then interigation. Now Bruce will you "torture" a fellow American with waterboarding to prove your point? Is it worth it to you to "torture" me with waterboarding but not worth doing it to save Americans lives? I'm your huckleberry little buddy now put up or shut up.

  10. Great point Christopher. And I would like to know if bleading heart Bruce thinks that withholding medical treatment to the burned terror suspect was torture as well? Now that I think would be torture as I have had 3rd degree burns on my hands and legs before and that is quit painfull.

  11. Hey Bruce OUR Own Military Trains with That Method! As Was Said in the Video Hear ANY SOLDIER Complain to Any One!

    You Never Said Anything About OUR Military Found DEAD in SHALLOW Graves BRUCE! Evidently You Dont Care About Military, But Just Cant Give Those TERRORIST Enough! Also How About the Journalist Who "Man Made Disaster" Gang Kidnaped and Then on Video Sent Around the World CUT OFF HIS HEAD Bruce WHILE He Was Still ALIVE!

    Once Again Bruce "Man Made Disaster" Gangs are Like SNAKES,You Gotta Cut There Heads Off to Kill Them!

    You Seem to Be More CONCERNED With the SNAKE Than OUR Citizens. Once Again Shame on YOU and Once Again You Have NONE!

  12. Wow, you guys are amazing. You do realize torture is illegal, even if Bush got his Office of Legal Counsel to say it isn't.

    The reason the underwear bomber's parents urged the underwear bomber to cooperate is because they knew he'd be treated humanely. That's why he talked and gave up valuable, actionable information.

    Yes, Chris, I will waterboard you to prove a point, although I can't believe you're so stupid as to go through with it.

    I had a list from my ad for a waterboarder when Chetly said he wanted to do it. The video of Mancow wasn't enough for you?

    Al, that military line is just BS and you know it. It's not the same to do it to a soldier who knows they won't be allowed to die. Our prisoners aren't sure they won't be tortured to death. In fact, there were 3 prisoners at Guantanamo who it is said committed suicide, but it has now come out that in all likelihood they were murdered, since the way the "suicide" happened is impossible.

    Chris, there is no proof that waterboarding saved any lives. Dick and Liz Cheney saying so is NOT proof.

    When and where, Chris? I'll invite the press to cover it.

  13. Bruce you set it up you sick puppy. You think it's torture but you are willing to do it to an American civilian but not to save American lives. Why are you only canserned for the terrorists fellings but not the American soldiers that get waterboarded all the time. I would think you would want to save those soldiers from torrture long before any terrorist. You called out to waterboard one of us. I said I would do it. Don't play stupid by pulling the
    "When and where, Chris?" coward talk. You set the whole thing up and I'll be there with bells on. But be prepared to be made the fool Bruce. I will do it not to prove that waterboarding isn't torture. As our military men prove that all the time when they go through it. I will do it to prove what a sick person you are for believing you were torturing a men to prove a point that can be disproved by our military. You have no way of winning that one Bruce. Because no matter what happens I win. Set it up my friend. It will be a small price to pay to see the look in your face when your brainiac idea blows up in your face and makes you libs look like a bunch of sicko. And I think you already knew that. I will not back down like Chetly did. I'm a lot more galvinized then that. Just make sure it's not outside in the cold when you "torture" me to prove your point. And don't worry Bruce I will do more then my share of calling the press. I want it documented a lot more then you do. You called for it,now set it up Bruce the Torturer.

  14. Bruce you sound like a "Truther" when you come up with those conspiracy theories of torture. Did you forget to put your tinfoil hat on last night? Have you been watching popcorn pop to close to the microwave again? Bruce why wont you answer my question on wether or not you think it was torture to withhold medical treatment from a enemy combatant??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

  15. Chris, I would say yes, but that's just my lay opinion.

  16. Chris, you say waterboarding isn't torture. If you do it, it will be my intent to ask you, when you're done, do you think it's torture, now, Chris? If I were asking questions pertinent to national security of America, would you tell me anything, just to make the torture stop? I'm going to ask you questions you may not want to answer.

  17. Bruce Three Snakes Committed Suicide BUT May have Been Murdered! Bruce JUST out of Curiosity HOW Many Ways Can You Commit Suicide and How Would You Know? EVER See A Suicide?

    Bruce Still Have Not COMMENTED on YOUR Thoughts Of American Service People Being Taken Prisoners BY the TERRORIST and Then Found DEAD in Shallow Graves? Wonder if THEY Felt LIKE They Would NOT BE ALLOWED to DIE! How About the Journalist WONDER if He THOUGHT He Would NOT Be ALLOWED to DIE?

    Bruce Did Not INFO From TERRORIST KEEP Several LOCTIONS Including L.A. From Being HIT or is that another ONE of those Truther Thingys That Never Happened!

    Your POST Once AGAIN Show You Are For PROTECTING the SNAKE and its a PITY to HEAR That From a Citizen!

  18. Bruce Snakes Gave UP Vital Info on the "Man Made Disaster" Targets that WAS CONFIRMED and YET CITIZENS DEATHS are LESS Important to YOU Than the Snakes RIGHTS!

    You Are the POSTER CHILD for the Extreme and WEAK LEFT! Just Think Bruce This Power You Think You Have NOW Will BE All Gone Soon and ANOTHER CHANCE will NEVER Come ALONG Again! Thank God!

  19. So Bruce let me get this streight. So you think the Underware bomber was tortured and not one word about it on your blog or the left wing media? In fact you dodged the questyion all together up until now. So you have no problem "torturing",you word not mine, an American civilian to prove a point. But you get all bent out of shap because we waterboarded 3 TERRORISTS to get information out of them. Either you don't really beleive what you are saying or you are a right up there with Dr. Mangala. Why aren't you crying out for our military men that are getting waterboarded? This all rings a little hallow to me. You do plan on having someone that knows waterboarding there to do it? It must be done right and by a professional. Just like they did in GITMO with only 3 terrorists. And if you think you will break me I can tell you that you will. I will ask for it to stop. But I will not lie to make it stop. Why do you believe Mancow over the thousands of military men that have been waterboarded in the same way? Men that are trained much like the terrorist are trained. You have a house of strawmen on this lame stance Bruce. Don't worry Bruce I'm not worried about you yelling at me. That isn't the challange for me. It will be all about the water for me. And if I crack and I will you have proven nothing but the fact that I am no soldier or trained terrorist. Their are once again thousands of soldiers that make it through waterboarding all the time and say nothing. If you want to know what waterboarding is really like ask a soldier that has been waterboarded. Or go on youtube and watch what soldiers look like and how it works on a Islamic terrorist soldier would be no different. The data that is out there from our own military says that it isn't a form of torture but of interagation. Just like keeping them up and not letting them know if it was day or night. Sodium pentathal in combanation as well as a placibo poison work well too. And don't forget that how to interigate a criminal prisoner and a soldier are two differnet things. You will have proven nothing more then you already are proving. That you would rather torture me then a terrorist. That you have no problem with our soldiers getting waterboarded but the three terrorists you have a problem with. You have shown your true colors to all of us.

  20. LOL, Chris, now you're doing the same thing as Chetly, "qualified waterboarder." LMAO.

    Next thing you'll be asking for an insurance policy. What we do to our soldiers is not the same thing as what we do to our prisoners.

    I don't want to torture anyone, Chris. You totally miss the point. Actually, you prove my point by admitting it's torture and not saying enhanced interrogation, which is what Bush and Cheney always referred to it as.

    How do I know you're an American civilian, Chris? I haven't seen your birth certificate. LOL.

    If you don't believe waterboarding is torture, then you are happy to subject yourself to it. And it doesn't require a "qualified" waterboarder. Anyone can do it.

    I don't know the circumstances of not treating the underwear bomber and the 50 minutes could have been just the time it took to transport him to a medical facility. I hadn't heard that's what happened.

    I suggest you watch the YouTube of Mancow and his admission, even though he firmly thought like you that waterboarding is just pouring a little water on someone's face, after experiencing it himself it is DEFINITELY torture. He lasted about 4 seconds.

  21. What is wrong with you? You would just waterboard me without having someone qualified? Even the terrorist got that much. And you think that some terrorist died because a qualified waterboard inerigator them. Are you nuts? This is just an exucuse. The fact is you can't back up your sick masochistic sense of right and wrong. Bruce you have painted yourself into a corner just like Obama die when he promised to close GITMO before he got the facts streight. If you want to waterboard someone then do it right by your own admision you think it is deadly. You scare me now. And I'm sure I'm not the only one that is sickened by your disregard to human life if they are conservative. I'm sure you would have djpyg pooring the water. But I know that vomamike and JoeC wouldn't have anything to do with you want and disregaurd of what is right. So witch is it Bruce? Are you as sick a person as you sound or do you not really believe whole heartedly what you say? It can only be one of the two. And since you want to play games with the waterboarding by none trained waterboarders in your garage. Which is it Bruce? And why wont you go after the government for torturing the undieterrorist and waterboarding thousands of our own troops while only waterboarding three detainees. And you are willing to torture me(only one)to prove a point that it's torture to waterboard three terrorists. What drugs did you take in the 60's again? I think they are creeping back up on ya.

  22. Bruce by the way I'm willing to be waterboarded because I believe it isn't torture. You just want to back out of it by saying you wont use a qualified waterboarder. Nice try little buddy but I have made it clear that it is you that thinks it's torture. So from your perspective you are willing to torture me to prove a point. I made your perspective clear as a bell. I think and anyone in their right mind would ever take that stupid challange and you knew that going in. So if that is the case then drop the straw man fake challange. The military uses trained waterboarders that have been waterboarded themselves. So how is that for another kicker.

  23. I have a list of trained waterboarders and EMT's from my challenge to Chetly. I will contact them again and try to set this up.

    Since you're willing to be waterboarded to prove to your fans that waterboarding is not torture, I'm sure you will follow through on your offer of being waterboarded.

  24. You bet ya Bruce. And our thousands of military men have already proven that fact. I'm just proving that you would rather 'torture' an American conservative and our own soldiers to prove a point that will not be made because I'm neither a trained soldier nor a trained terrorist.

  25. Hay Bruce lets make this even more interesting. If I come out of this waterboarding and admite it's not torture then you are next to be waterboarded. I think it's only fair that you take some risk in this venture as well. To be fair I will bet you that if I come out of the waterboarding and still say it's not torture then you must indure the same thing but for half the time. You are older and much heavier then me so I'm not mean. This way it gives me something to hold onto just like a soldier or a terrorist would. I'm sure you would have no problem with a little risk on your part since you think I will walk away from this crying like a baby that I had been tortured. Risk for risk is fair don't ya think?

  26. Bruce You Have Not Mentioned ANY of the Tortures ARE MILITARY and Civilians Might Have Put Under Before They Were Executed and Buried in Shallow Graves!

    Some Times Just Reading Your Comments is Torture and BY Your Comments HOW You PUT Terroist Treatment OVER Citizens is a SHAME but Then Again You Have NONE!

  27. well a couple of things occur to me. One that simulated drowning ir waterboarding is not torture at the one of two times magnitude.

    But we are not talking about once or twice to break a man and loosen his tongue. We are talking nearing the 100 times range for one detainee and 180 for another.

    Two how effective can it be when it takes 183 times. dd that up with all the other harsh methods being used and you have a picture of falied interogations.

  28. Joe it was only used on 3 terrorists. But it is used on our soliers to train them on not cracking under pressure. Interigation or a terrorist isn't going to be pleasant. Neither was withholking medical treatment and questioning the terrorist. I'm glade they did that. I know I would do much worse if it was my families lives on the line. And the truth of the matter is I value that terrorists wellbeing below that of the inocent Americans lives. But what I find odd is that Bruce and many liberals value the terrorists more then the American soldiers that get waterboarding. If they think it is a sick for of torture then why aren't they crying over the fact that it is happening to our soliers all the time? They pick the 3 terrorist that had it done all the time over not one word about our soldiers getting it done to toughen them up for the enemy. And Joe where is your proof that it failed? There is proff that it worked you on the left choose to ignore it. You believe a bloggers conspiracy theory over testimonies from the government. I know Dick Cheney, Dick Cheney and his lesbian daughter...They are lieing and so are the soldiers...It's a big right wing coverup....And area 51 is where aliens and the great satan are hiding...

  29. Chris, yes, some of our soldiers do receive training in countering interrogations which includes waterboarding or other simulated drownings. But do they get that training 183 times? No.

    I never suggested it failed, in fact i suggested in was ineffective if it took 183 times to get inofrmation. And i am not the only person who suggests that it is not the best way to get info.

    But Bruce has a point about its legality. Here's an article about it by a former JAG lawyer

    and the paper he did on it..

  30. What is wrong with you Bruce? First you said that waterboarding is illegal. And now you want to waterboard someone illegally. Or were you just lieing about it being illegal? You have an evil side to you Bruce.

  31. Joe if it is ineffective but worked isn't that an oximoron? So Joe you say that it's ineffective because it took 183 times to get them to talk. But they ended up talking and giving up valuable intel. That is just ignorent talk. So Joe what is the magic number of times before you say it is effective? And are you a better authority then the men that were trained in interigation? Why don't you trust the military?

  32. Chris, as far as your challenge, no f'ing way. I accept the fact that waterboarding is torture, so why would I undergo waterboarding to prove it's torture.

    It sounds to me like you're just looking for a way to change your mind.

    I don't care about the terrorists more than soldiers, but the fact that we torture our prisoners makes us no different than our enemies. And what you haven't mentioned is the fact that if we torture our prisoners, what justification do we have when our soldiers are captured to protest their torture.

    Torture is a WAR CRIME! We prosecuted Japanese soldiers for waterboarding prisoners after WWII. So why isn't it a war crime now?

    Don't give me this crap about using it in training our soldiers. They know they won't die from the procedure and they don't have it done to them 183 times.

    FBI interrogators have testified under oath at Congressional hearings that all the information we obtained was from standard interrogation techniques, one was so simple as offering a diabetic prisoner sugar-free cookies. Seriously! Look it up.

  33. Bruce but if I prove you wrong by walking out of it without admiting it's torture then I proved it isn't torture. Unless you are telling me that the outcome doesn't matter? You should have some skin in the game. We don't torture our POW's. We don't even torture the terrorists. If it is torture to the terrorists then it it torture for our soldiers and to me. And that is your perspective. How will you put some skin in the game Bruce? I'm willing to be waterboarded what will you be willing to do? Give an empty challenge? Thats no different then yopu challenge to conservatives that have paid into SSI to not take it. Then they shouldn't have to pay for it if they don't want or most likely wont get something they wont get. You must not be too confident that waterboarding is torture if you aren't willing to put a little bet on it? Is that how you plan on getting out of it? By letting me take all the risk with no reward. You need to put up or shut up Bruce. I will show up and I will make it through the waterboarding and you will be next. You are putting up the same thing as I am Bruce. I don't see what the problem would be? If it is medical I would understand. But we will find another way for you to have swome skin in this challenge of yours. Put up or shut up Bruce. I'll be there to show you that it's not torture and if you are so confident that it is torture then you should know that I will admite it quite easily as a civilian. You have nothing to loose unless I am right. I'm confident in my beliefs are you????????I still have to go first and pass the test. And if I say it is torture then nothing lost on your part. But if I come out of this and say it isn't torture,just like our thousands of soldiers have then you loose. I'm not going to have you spinning this when I do show you that it's not torture. I will not do this in vein. If you aren't willing to back up what you believe then you gave an empty challenge and you are nothing more then a goofball that rather waterboard me then a terrorist. And that is just psycho.

  34. Bruce What Would YOU Fight For or Die For?

    Would You Use Torture to Save Family Members?

    Talk and Opinion are ONE Thing DEEDS are Another Just Wondering What Your Measuring Stick is for Your SURVIVAL!

  35. First, you offer a false premise. I do not believe torture works for gaining useful information. So, I would not want torture used, even if a family member were at risk. I want what works to be used.

    Chris, your offer is ridiculous. I'm not the one that clams that waterboarding isn't torture. What would my being waterboarded prove?

    I admit, that I am afraid to be waterboarded and I would not voluntarily submit myself to it under any circumstances. I am equally confident in my position that it is torture, as had been determined by everyone before George W. Bush and his legal team.

    You're just chicken, as I thought all along.

  36. Bruce By Your Answer I Gotta Believe YOU Know All About CHICKENS!

  37. Damn straight, when it comes to being waterboarded, I'm a chicken. I would never say waterboarding isn't torture and I would never agree to be waterboarded.

    I'm way too smart to do that.

    If you think it's macho to agree to be waterboarded, you are even more dumb than I thought.

  38. Whatever Bruce. You aren't serious. You can spin it any way you want. I made my points clear and you look like a fake. No one will take you serious any more. And now we all know how sick you are. Have some skin in the game. Put up some money if I don't agree to it being torture. If you can't do that then you are worthless and so was your challenge. Thanks for playing you sicko.LOL

  39. Water Boarding Bad!

    Terrorist Rights Good!

    Beheading on Live Video No Comment!

    Live Military Captured Turn Up DEAD in Shallow Graves No COMMENT!

    TERRORIST Tried in CRIMINAL Court Great!

    Miranda warnings TERRORIST Great!

    One Great American Bruce!


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